Agreed. I think it's important to point out that at no time have you stated that you believe Tressel is not capable of taking OSU to that next level. He just needs to realize that the offense needs to change and stop being stubborn about it.

...we will get a new head coach and there will be something wrong with him and we miss the fact that we have won a bunch of games and turned out a lot of young boys/men who have a bit better grasp on life.
Was it not a few short years ago we were winning but couldn't beat Michigan or many of our bowl games, while at the same time having thugs and student-less young men running the program? And before that, didn't we endure 9-3 for about four consecutive years under Earle Bruce?

I do think perspective is way out of whack. Yes, I think we should do some things differently. But we did not lose to LSU because of our offensive problems. Hey, the Florida game was an aberration on all fronts. I will take what we have and keep taking it because I also happen to believe that in the next year or two, we will have something that takes walking through a difficult/learning process to get to. This is what college athletics should be about. I heard similar complaints back in the Zwick/early Smith years and then look at what happened. Short memories, people!

I do think perspective is way out of whack. Yes, I think we should do some things differently. But we did not lose to LSU because of our offensive problems. Hey, the Florida game was an aberration on all fronts. I will take what we have and keep taking it because I also happen to believe that in the next year or two, we will have something that takes walking through a difficult/learning process to get to. This is what college athletics should be about. I heard similar complaints back in the Zwick/early Smith years and then look at what happened. Short memories, people!

Perspective out of whack. Those are words I can handle. Now we can have a discussion about this.

What is the basis of your optimism? My argument is we have seen so many different players come through the program. We continue to have the most inept offense of any major program. Unlike the NFL, college football programs turnover their rosters completely every 4 years. Despite that we still have the same production. Right now we are looking at the #1 player from the class of 2008 at quarterback. We are looking at a national top 5 receiver. We had the consensus top offensive line class in the country 2 years ago. We are #108 in offense. I know. We are young. That argument would have some weight if we were top 50 or 60. More importantly it would carry some weight if halfway through the year we saw some progress. We do not.

Convince me to come over to your side. I don't like being over here at odds with the program I hold so dear. Tell me what is the basis of your optimism?

Duane,
I do not understand why there is little discussion concerning the defense. It appears as if they have reverted back to the ultra conservative defense that resulted in their losses to Florida and USC last year. This is the rush four and play a soft zone/man mentality. As USC showed on their last drive this year, it is pretty easy to score on a D that rushes 3 or four men and plays 5 to 10 yards off of the wide receivers. If I bet on Ohio State rushing four on every 2nd or 3rd down and long they faced on defense I would be a rich man.
I just do not understand why we do not run a Brent Venables or Will Muschamp type D. One where we are constantly putting pressure on the QB and not allowing him to sit comfortably in the pocket and pick apart a zone or soft coverage.
P.S. I'm a big fan of your page.

For Tressel to be an offensive minded coach, and to see what kind of offense we have is disturbing. Other than Troy Smith's senior year, when have we had a offense that could win games without relying on the defense to bail them out? One can argue the only reason we won the NC was due to an amazing defense and an offense littered with NFL draft picks. Tresselball asks these players to play flawless. Which is hard to ask for 18-19 year olds. I'm not bashing Tressel as a HC, but he needs to realize that he needs help. As a die hard Buckeye fan I expect there to be criticism when it is due. And I don't think anyone would argue that is past due.

If you read ANY history of Ohio State football, for decades, Ohio State has been known as the graveyard of coaches. Except for Paul Brown and Widoes, who resigned, Ohio State has fired every football coach they have had that anyone alive can remember(Yes they fired Woody). While 90% of the college football fan's in the country would LOVE to have our records, this is NOT good enough for Ohio State. We expect our recruiting classes to be better than everyone elses, we EXPECT our coaches to take these top recruits and TEACH them to be BETTER players. We EXPECT our team to battle for the Nation Championship 9 out of 10 years. We support our football team to the tune of $68 million dollars a year. This is not a small school looking to diversify their campus activities with sports. Ohio State football is BIG business. You need people in control who understand this philosophy. If you think people on here are ridiculous, root for Ohio U. or Toledo. I have been an avid Ohio State supporter for over fifty years. I graduated from OSU in 1972 during what is arguably the greatest era of Ohio State football. I have contributed thousandfs of dollars to my alma mater. NO ONE can question my loyalty or devotion to Ohio State. True Ohio State fans EXPECT more from their team than they are getting. There needs to be MAJOR changes made. If they are voluntary, fine. If not they need to be done with force.

To be fair, had Woody not decked a Clemson player on television, odds are good he would've retired on his own terms. But I agree, I think the argument of "wait until next year" is getting old. We're in Tressel's 9th season and, with the exception of one season, we've been largely disappointed waiting for the offense to put it together. Even 2002 was won pretty much despite the offense. It took Clarett's brilliance, a couple absolutely clutch plays from Krenzel, and a hell of a lot of luck in quite a few games.

is the talent developing or has it actually regressed during this season? Is Jim Tressel willing to make changes or will he insist on doing the same things but expecting different results? At the very least the guy is just way too conservative. Something has to give. Unless we want to accept and live with it. We will, hopefully, end up 9-3 or better this year. We lost 3 last year. If it happens next year will you be "tolerating earle bruce" again?

Hey Duane,

When people talk about Coach Tressel's record, why do they conveniently forget to mention that he has largely dominated a weak conference. Think Miami back when they use to roll through the Big East. I notice a considerable difference in coaching and quality of play from the Big Ten. There was never such a talent gap between the Big Ten and other conferences. Look at when Big Ten teams play against the big boys. They are dreadful.

Coach Tressel still deserves credit for winning those games in conference. A lot of coaches wouldn't. However, Ohio State is still exposed time and time again against better competition. I think Ohio State struggles to win 8 games a year in the SEC or Big 12 with this offense.

Contrary to people's perception, Ohio State fans are very loyal and very reasonable. As has been pointed out, this is year 9 and we still are not running a system OSU. Rich Rod has been at Michigan two years and at least he has an offense in place. If I can take an example of the defenses struggle against Florida, LSU, and USC as an illustration. Many fans were upset and demanded change on the defensive side of the ball. After the USC game, OSU's defense was noticeably more aggressive. This was evidenced by the defenses play against Penn State, Texas, and USC. We lost a lot of talent last year and the defense seems to have improved. They may not have played their best ball against Purdue, but if we are going to give the offense a pass for 8 of 9 years, we can give the defense a pass for this game. OSU's DCs, Fickell and Heacock, have proved they have figured it out. I think most OSU fans are happy with the job the coaches have done on defense. This tells me that OSU fans are patient and willing to give their coach a chance to work things out. I don't find 9 years of generally poor offensive performance to be knee jerk reaction.

Ultimately, I think most OSU fans are in favor of a solution that involves Tressel. At this point, I justhave a difficult time believing that he will after negligently ignoring the problem. Some act as if Cacoh Tressel has not been given every cahnce. Look at Coach Tressel's coaching the past 5 years and tell me that he had even been one of the top 10 coaches. I see more and more questionable decisions.

Duane, Here is some pespective and an attempt to get you to come over to the other side. I, by no means, am happy with the teams performance up to this point. But, I think we owe Tressel the benefit of the doubt thru the next two years. Below is a copy of the 2004 schedule:

2004 Results
OSU 27 - Cincinnati 6
OSU 24 - Marshall 21
OSU 22 - at North Carolina State 14
OSU 27 - at Northwestern 33 (OT)
OSU 13 - Wisconsin 24
OSU 7 - at Iowa 33
OSU 30 - Indiana 7
OSU 21 - Penn State 10
OSU 32 - at Michigan State 19
OSU 17 - at Purdue 24
OSU 37 - Michigan 21
OSU 33 - Oklahoma State 7 Alamo Bowl

There are a lot of similarities between 2004 and this year. 2004 was a very young team that had a lot of talent (Hawk, Carpenter, Holmes) but had to replace a lot of leadership that was mainly responsible for the 2002-2003 run. The season was marked by the three game losing streak that ended with the Justin Zwick injury and began the Troy Smith era. There was a lot of controversary then about what was happening with the offense and who was the better QB. Even after Troy took over, there were still many bumps in the road. Other than Indiana (we always blow out Indiana), we beat a(closer than the score was) very, very bad Penn State (I believe Tedd Ginn returned a punt that game), had the official Ted Ginn coming out party at Michigan State where I think he scored 3 different ways, and then lost to Purdue. It was not until the Michigan game where things SUDDENLY just clicked. No one saw it coming, we were big underdogs at the Shoe. I think this team is going through a similar situation. We have a lot of young talent on both sides that was not forced to lead very much the last two years becasue of the veterans that were on those teams. This team is searching for a leader and an identity. Once it did for the 2004 team it set off the run over the next two years. Keep in mind, the 2005 team might have been one of the best Tressel ever had, but it lost twice that year. Once to the eventual National Champ Texas and once at the best Penn State team Joe Paterno has had in 15 years. My point is that Tressel does things for a reason, and teams sometime have to learn things the hard way. That man has forgotten more about coaching than most of us will ever learn. I really and truly believe there is an "Aha" moment coming for this team when it will all click. I just hope we don't have to suffer thru a three game losing streak before it gets here. Have Faith.

PS, I hope the defensive coaches remembered why they scrapped that sit back in the zone defense they ran last week. It brought back nightmares.

Again, 100% agreement. Now if we could just get something to happen. Waiting until next season is going to be really long wait, and even then it's not likely anything will happen.

Amen Duane. Coach Tressel is a great face for the program. I would give him a chance to remain so after the season, even if we continue to stink it up the rest of the year. The ultimatum should be simple - hire someone else to design and run the offense or we will regretfully give you a gold watch and find another head coach, one that would rather walk over hot coals than punt at the opposing team's freaking 34 yard line.

Inept offense year in and year out is not acceptable at OSU.

I was listening to the Big Show today with Spiels and Hooley and was amused at their argument against an OC that OSU's offense would struggle while they rebuild around a philosophy. Does anyone really think that the offense could get any worse around here. It is not as if the standards are that high. I am more than willing to go through the growing pains of an OC because I believe long term change will be for the better.

I also wanted to say how much I appreciate Duane being willing to speak up. We all spend our time on Bucknuts, Buckeyeplanet, and DuaneLongReport because we love Buckeye football. Where else would we express our frustrations or get all the latest recruiting gossip. The venom that some defenders of JIm Tressel spread at fans of the program is incredible. I hope that we can at least all find common ground in wanting what's best for the program. While we may disagree, I don't think that makes any of us less of a fan.

The venom that some defenders of JIm Tressel spread at fans of the program is incredible.

There's just a lot of vitriol period lately, not just from those who are in Tressel's corner. On the Bucknuts free board it's basically become a wasteland. You either call for Tressel and Company's head or you're bashed as an apologist for mediocrity. Post after post just slamming the staff and players, and almost none of it rational let alone informative or constructive. I've tried to reduce my presence there because of it.

I only visit two sites--BN and here. I generally look forward to the posts here because they're almost always more informative and better thought out, even in the cases where I disagree, than the bulk of the posts on BN's free board.

Two years ago, the offense was fine. TB was throwing it all over the field and the running was good. The last two years of TSmith, no one was complaining.
Have we watched Pryor closely? He has a long way to go. He is in the thinking stage--the worst place to be. He is late to throw and late to run. He is trying to figure it out and then with the youth of the line and the sickness, I think we need to be patient. I really think we will be a different team next year.
I will be very curious to see how good OK, FL and TX will be next year with rookie QBs.

...
written by Kent Denlinger, October 21, 2009
Two years ago, the offense was fine. TB was throwing it all over the field and the running was good. The last two years of TSmith, no one was complaining.
Have we watched Pryor closely? He has a long way to go. He is in the thinking stage--the worst place to be. He is late to throw and late to run. He is trying to figure it out and then with the youth of the line and the sickness, I think we need to be patient. I really think we will be a different team next year.
I will be very curious to see how good OK, FL and TX will be next year with rookie QBs.

If this were just a down period I would be with you, asking for patience. But that is not the case. The year and a half of good offense was the abberation.

The numbers don't lie:

2001 - 65th in total offense. Akron, Wake Forest and Kentucky were ranked higher. 67th in scoring offense. 33rd in total defense. 20th in scoring defense.
2002 - 70th in total offense. Schools like Indiana, Michigan St, C.Michigan, Navy. 41st in scoring offense. 23rd in total defense. 2nd in scoring defense.
2003 - 93rd in total offense. Football powers such as Ohio, Duke, Middle Tenn St and Temple had better offenses. 74th in scoring offense. 10th in total defense. 16th in scoring defense.
2004 - 98th in total offense. Southern Methodist, Akron and N. Texas ranked higher. 71st in scoring offense. 30th in total defense. 19th in scoring defense.
2005 - 32nd in total offense. 26th in scoring offense. 5th in total defense. 5th in scoring defense.
2006 - 26th in total offense. Houston and Tulsa were a couple of schools with better offenses. 8th in scoring offense. 12th in total defense. 5th in scoring defense.
2007 - 67th in total offense. Tulane, Rice, La-Lafayette, N. Texas were better on offense than Ohio State. 41st in scoring offense. 1st in total defense. 1st in scoring defense.
2008 - 76th in total offense. Mid Tenn St, Arkansas St, La-Monroe ranked higher. 45th in scoring offense. 14th in total defense. 6th in scoring defense.

Troy Smith won the Heisman in spite of the offense not because of it.

I will be very curious to see how good OK, FL and TX will be next year with rookie QBs.

It's funny you bring up Oklahoma, because they're playing with a freshman QB right now with Bradford out. And I'd say Landry Jones has somewhat similar stats to Pryor. However, Jones played one less game, thrown 1 more TD and 3 less INTs.

But he's also been sacked 7 less times (12 to 5), which puts some emphasis once again on line play, although Pryor both helps and hurts that stat. Pryor has also run for 367 yards and 4 TDs, compared to -23 yards and 0TDs.

But what Pryor has that Jones hasn't are starts. Jones has only started 4 games, playing in 5. Pryor has started 18 games and played in 20. It's valid to say Pryor is still learning, but he's definitely not a rookie at this point. I hate to make the comparison, but at this point in his career Tebow had already played his part in winning his first NC and was on his way to a Heisman. And it might not be fair, but as a #1 recruit that's who we all compared Pryor against. When we compare him against another #1, Barkley, we see another case where it looks like Pryor isn't matching up. But is that because of the coaching staff or because of Pryor? Or both?

Duane what is your Background ?

Are you either a former coach or player ? Interested to know - thanks

Agree 100%. Looking inside the numbers is the only way to find the truth. I think you're reading my mind or my posts at BN. Glad to have you on my side.

Duane, I think you're taking a narrow view of this situation, and mischaracterizing a few things in the process.

First, you say you're fed up with the name-calling, and then moments later you insinuate that the people who disagree with you are blind followers of a cult of personality. Not really a good way to put an end to the name calling. And I'm not a fan of it either, but I think a quick perusal of some of the message boards will make it clear that a large proportion of it is originating from the "fed up" contingent. If you want the name-calling to end, turning against it from one direction while turning a blind eye to it, or even participating in it, from the other direction, is not the way to go.

You say that you don't get ranked by beating Indiana for the umpteenth time. This is true, but it's also a strawman argument. You do get ranked by largely dominating your conference, including several pretty good teams. This is what has happened. Say what you want about the BigTen being somewhat down for much of that time, and there's some truth to that, but dominating even a somewhat off BigTen to the extent that Tressel has done is not an easy feat, and not to be dismissed as merely "beating Indiana for the umpteenth time".

You imply that OSU has consistently failed to be competitive against the top-ranked non-conference opponents they've faced. It's happened a couple of times, but more often than not the game has been highly competitive, even decided in the final minutes. I'm not suggesting that merely being competitive against top-ranked opponents, while losing, is sufficient. It's not. But this is a significant point, as your suggestion of repeated blowouts suggests that OSU is nowhere near where they need to be, whereas the reality of mostly highly contested losses suggests that OSU is a couple of steps away from where they need to be.

I understand your views, I don't think they make you a whiner, and I agree with a good portion of them. Some improvements are in order. But I also think Tressel has proven enough, and done enough good, to merit a bit more leeway, a bit of time to see the past two solid O-line recruiting classes (which followed several years of meager O-line recruiting classes) reach maturity, and a bit less blanket assertion that he can't get it done.