BOBBY HAINES  wrote:

<<<I have appreciated your insightful explains of SSE & WSE and the different
Hybrids and how JT has been recruiting the last 5 years. And if you have been
paying attention to my postings, I have disagrragreed with you in the fact that
i think JT has the flexibility to adjust on the field to just about any look he
wants to for Big10, SEC, Big12. Speed, Power, Spread, whatever. 3-3-5, 3-4, 4-3,
de to dt, dt to de to lb, ss to olb.
He has so many different hybrid athletes on this defense, that if any idiot doesn't think we dont have speed...Watch the spring game, and watch Moeller track down the run away RB at the end of that game. Beautiful! We are more flexible than we have ever been!<<<

I do believe that the staff wants flexibility. We were at our best with an elite Leo player on the roster. When Bobby Carpenter was here he was the key to the defense Heacock wanted to run. It was as flexible a defense as you will ever see. Being able to move between the 4-3 and the 3-4 without changing personnel is the ultimate in flexibility. The one downside to packages is they are a "tell". Who is coming on the field and who is going off is a tip-off to the opposition. With Carpenter being able to put his hand in the dirt and play both the run and the pass as a defensive end, as well as play in space as we well as cover as a linebacker was the difference. Finding another has been a long fruitless search. You may remember that Gibson first stepped on the field as a linebacker. They knew he could rush the passer. The experiment did not go well. Gibson is a go go go type of player. You need to put him at end and cut him lose. If you want a player like that again I think you have to go with a big linebacker and teach him what he needs to play defensive end. I think we may have seen at attempt at that with Mark Johnson. I know that was the plan with Walter Dublin. There are a couple of guys I find very intriguing as possibles. Etienne Sabino is a unique talent that is not adjusting to the scheme really well. He played linebacker in high school but played with the same go go go that Gibson played but Gibson was a high school defensive end. Sabino has the size. Unlike Gibson, he has the experience at linebacker that will allow him to handle the linebacker responsibilities better. The other I like in this role is David Durham. He might be an even better candidate as he played a much more disciplined linebacker than Sabino in high school. I saw linebacker film of him and wondered why anyone would project him as a defensive end, then I saw film of him a few weeks later as a defensive end and saw why.

I think we continue to recruit for the flexibility. John Newsome is not looking like a defensive end. Neither is Wells and Durham is not looking like an every down hand in the dirt 4-3 end. On the other hand Steve Miller is a prototype 4-3 weakside defensive end. When you think about it flexibility is the way to go. We are not going to have a heckuva time winning the Big Ten if winter comes early to the region and we end having to slug it out in games that see 10 passes per side, but we are not going to win bowl games against SEC and Big 12 opponents 6 weeks later with a defense that wins games against 45 running plays.

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Comments (14)

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written by Kasino Royale, June 13, 2009

There are probably 3 teams that have the ability to run it the whole game in the B10 in bad weather. First being Wisky followed by Iowa then Mich St. The rest are hybrids or passing teams. I think you and the staff are correct in building for flexibilty not the exception to the rule. We'll worry about the exception when or if it ever happens.

Besides when is the last time we had a cold, blizzard condition game? I'm not complaining either, :kiss:

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written by Bobby Haines, June 13, 2009

What do you think their base defense is going to be in the fall?
1)I keep seeing where they list Heyward at DE not DT. 2)Why do you think Rose has not risen above the rest yet? Is he as soft as rumored? 3)How is Worthington's Health? 4)Is Wilson going to retain his starting job? 5)Is Thomas that good, or were those 7 sacks a fluke by the rules? I didnt watch the action.6)Are Wells or Mobley going to get into the action? 7) What is the rotation going to be like with Denlinger and Larimore? Do you see any of the 4 freshmen NOT red shirting? 9)Who do you really think we close with recruiting wise in the front 7 and why?

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written by bigdog3300, June 13, 2009

Bobby, Wilson will start at DE with Gibson....man, what a pair of DE's. Heyward is listed at DE but will be moved inside when we show an odd front, he'll see time at both spots for sure.

The question I have is if the staff is still as high on Goebel as they were during bowl practices.

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written by mab, June 13, 2009

Duane,
Would Nathan Williams fit the Carpenter mold? I thought he played LB in high school. Can he cover like a LB?
mab

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written by O-State, June 13, 2009

What do you you mean Jon Newsome isn't looking like a DE? He looks like a perfect weakside DE. Someone who can get to the QB.

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re:
written by dvo45, June 14, 2009

Duane,
Would Nathan Williams fit the Carpenter mold? I thought he played LB in high school. Can he cover like a LB?
mab

Williams is the back up to Thad Gibson at LEO...

He is a perfect example of what type of kid you want to recruit for the LEO...

Another thing...the LEO was a part time position after Carpenter graduated and until Gibson became a full time starter.

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FLEXIBILITY
written by dbuckeye44, June 14, 2009

Good points again Duane. I think that most definitely Durham might fit this role as could possibly Dorien Bell and or Jordan Whiting.

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written by Buck68, June 14, 2009

Duane, my response here is about thinking methods, not who is right or wrong.

It appears you are using the term “flexibility” like Coach Tressel has used “versatility” the past couple years to describe recruiting multi-position or task capability. As a Principle of War, flexibility is adaptability to situation, people, and tactics to better achieve [out-compete] the task at hand. If you will, versatilit’ is quantity; flexibility a quality. Versatility the talk, flexibility the walk.

These definitions and distinctions illustrate the suggestion that our own football thinking is our greatest limitation. We focus on ourselves; our way, our identity, what we prefer. We feel certain quantities “look like” or ‘make’ him ‘be’ ‘that type’ of player. We depend on the logical fallacy of asserted conclusions: We “want” a player who “gets” a certain result; ‘makes plays’; ‘can’. We operate based on fundamentally illogical premises, such as “he can’t do it unless he ‘has’ certain size”, and what you ‘can or can’t teach’ that are in ISOLATION or conflict with the rest of the factors in a dynamic competitive situation.

In stark contrast to our bipolar, zero-sum thinking, the tactical principle of flexibility is a dynamic relational principle describing constant adaptation to the situation in concert with the rest of the principles of human conflict [war]. Flexibility in tactics is like a decision-making matrix, iteratively ranking and ranging the factors and options to…take risks commensurate with the desired gains. We, OTOH are as Petey so clearly and succinctly put it, “just as expected”…just being ourselves instead of focusing on how to outcompete. No amount of labels [“4-3 or 3-4 is the ultimate”] or stocking up [“you can’t never get enough of _____”] ingredients…bakes a cake. When we encounter an opponent skilled in using our thinking against us…we achieve total “avoid and minimize” with such monumental foolishnesses as “The Perfect Storm”. Childishs version of this adult ostrich behavior include ‘the fluke’, ‘the refs’, ‘the weather’, and so forth.

JT uses the term, “decision-making” to define that elusive, most desired quality in a QB. Well, anyone with ‘choice’…’decides’. The living, active, doing vs saying question, is ‘how do you decide’.

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written by marksgforce, June 14, 2009

From the number of talented defensive linemen with versatility and flexibility that I perceive to be on this 09 squad (an embarrassment of riches), I am very excited with the possibility of 2009 being one of those legendary defenses. We've had very good defenses every year that Tressel has been here (and throughout most of OSU history minus the Bruce years), but this one looks like it could win the LOS like the 2002 group did.

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re:
written by Kasino Royale, June 14, 2009

From the number of talented defensive linemen with versatility and flexibility that I perceive to be on this 09 squad (an embarrassment of riches), I am very excited with the possibility of 2009 being one of those legendary defenses. We've had very good defenses every year that Tressel has been here (and throughout most of OSU history minus the Bruce years), but this one looks like it could win the LOS like the 2002 group did.

People are sleeping on this defense because there seeing so many new faces. The point their missing is the fact these new faces arent' really all that new. There's a boat load of practice reps and game reps jogging out on the field for the D. I think we'll surprise some teams and some folks in the media.

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written by 1buckfaninmich, June 17, 2009

Marks and Kasino: I hope you're both right--but the proof will be in the pudding. I expected a marked (pun intended) improvement of our defensive front last year from the get go, but it didn't happen. The entire DL got pushed around and embarrassed by SC. The overall quality of play didn't improve much until late in the season, when the Bucks played inferior opponents, Abdullah elevated his play and Nathan Williams got more playing time. Other than Abdullah, the play by the tackles was pretty soft all year, with very little penetration.

The keys this year will be: 1) improvement by the tackles (and that better happen by 9/12; 2) consistent pressure from the weak side DE by both Gibson and Williams (with Williams getting more PT than last year); 3) better pressure from the strong side DE (Wilson has a lot to prove--he was barely, if at all, adequate prior to his injury--if he's not, we need someone else like Heyward to step up; 4) more disruption and penetration by the DTs. We need all of these pieces to come together for this year's DL to match 2002. The potential is there, but now the guys (esp DTs and strongside DE) must step up their games and prove it, especially against SC. They need to stuff the run in that game and make Corp beat them. If that happens, it could be a special year not only for the DL, but the entire team.

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On flexibility and the defense in general.
written by Frank, June 18, 2009

On D we will give up passing yards but if 2 out of 7 guys step up at DT I think we will eventually get good, consistent pressure for the first time in awhile with Gibson, Williams, and Moeller. There are too many athletes in our front 7 (Rolle, Sabino, Klein, Sweat) for the staff not to be able to craft a couple blitzers out of them. Everyone has passed out asleep on Lawrence Wilson; I haven't seen people so aggressively write a player off since Brandon Saine. Maybe a fourteenth year senior who knows the position, has NFL hopes and is a vocal leader in the huddle could prove a helpful reserve. Our LBs will be made to look bad against SC's quintet of future first-round tailbacks. They will miss tackles and they will be shaken but the one thing they CANNOT BE is out of position. If the 'backers can play assignment-sound ball and prevent Gable and associates from ripping off huge ones, we will pressure their young QB enough to keep them to 24 points or so. After that, the linebackers will dominate every other team but Penn State. NO ONE will beat us to the outside and, because of the flexibility we have with personnel, it's hard to see even Wisconsin pounding us inside, especially with a fully matured D-line. I do think we will once again be a great Buckeye defense and, for the first time since '05, a COMPLETE defense. The Silver Bullets '09: Now with a pass-rush. If we get improved pressure and Chimdi Chekwa is truly a #1 OSU corner, then we will be able to play the kind of give-up-alot-of-yards, bend-but-don't-break defense in the passing game that we saw in the early Tressel years. The other corner will be beaten alot, but he will help against the run, whoever he is, and we have very good safties (Russell is going to surprise people) behind him to clean up some rookie untidiness. However, all the X's and O's mean nothing of course without leaders. Guys who impose their personality on the entire defense and know how to motivate and incite when the fur starts to fly. I think Lawrence Wilson and Austin Spitler can without question be those guys. So can Doug Worthington and Kurt Coleman. Despite the loss of the Big 3 this is a very experienced defense. It has speed, it has size, it has flexibilty, and it has veterans who are good leaders.Those are the things you NEED. Something you LIKE is to have a busload of new options to inject added competion into the proceedings. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if, by Michigan week, we had a top 5 defense with C.J. Barnett and Melvin Fellows as starters. I think this will be our best D since '02. And if Terrelle Pryor can be the whole offense against USC we will ride this defense to another NC appearance.

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re: On flexibility and the defense in general.
written by Frank, June 18, 2009

keep them to 24 points or so. After that, the linebackers will dominate every other team but Penn State. NO ONE will beat us to the outside and, because of the flexibility we have with personnel, it's hard to see even Wisconsin pounding us inside, especially with a fully matured D-line. I do think we will once again be a great Buckeye defense and, for the first time since '05, a COMPLETE defense. The Silver Bullets '09: Now with a pass-rush. If we get improved pressure and Chimdi Chekwa is truly a #1 OSU corner, then we will be able to play the kind of give-up-alot-of-yards, bend-but-don't-break defense in the passing game that we saw in the early Tressel years. The other corner will be beaten alot, but he will help against the run, whoever he is, and we have very good safties (Russell is going to surprise people) behind him to clean up some rookie untidiness. However, all the X's and O's mean nothing of course without leaders. Guys who impose their personality on the entire defense and know how to motivate and incite when the fur starts to fly. I think Lawrence Wilson and Austin Spitler can without question be those guys. So can Doug Worthington and Kurt Coleman. Despite the loss of the Big 3 this is a very experienced defense. It has speed, it has size, it has flexibilty, and it has veterans who are good leaders.Those are the things you NEED. Something you LIKE is to have a busload of new options to inject added competion into the proceedings. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if, by Michigan week, we had a top 5 defense with C.J. Barnett and Melvin Fellows as starters. I think this will be our best D since '02. And if Terrelle Pryor can be the whole offense against USC we will ride this defense to another NC appearance.

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written by Frank, June 18, 2009

...leaders. Guys who impose their personality on the entire defense and know how to motivate and incite when the fur starts to fly. I think Lawrence Wilson and Austin Spitler can without question be those guys. So can Doug Worthington and Kurt Coleman. Despite the loss of the Big 3 this is a very experienced defense. It has speed, it has size, it has flexibilty, and it has veterans who are good leaders.Those are the things you NEED. Something you LIKE is to have a busload of new options to inject added competion into the proceedings. Hell it wouldn't surprise me if, by Michigan week, we had a top 5 defense with C.J. Barnett and Melvin Fellows as starters. I think this will be our best D since '02. And if Terrelle Pryor can be the whole offense against USC we will ride this defense to another NC appearance.

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