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Jonathan Hankins and the 3-3-5
Written by Duane Long   
Thursday, 11 June 2009 14:32

First, I want to talk about the offer to Jonathan Hankins. That is what I am talking about. A true nose tackle. He is as well conditioned a 325 lb kid as you will ever see. He is impossible to move and commands a double team on every play. He hustles and chases. Love the motor. The fact that Oklahoma has offered him seals the deal. We think  DT, we think SEC but nobody is producing better DTs than Bob Stoops right now. The top 2 tackles in the draft could come out of Oklahoma next year. I am really surprised Michigan has not offered. With their 3-3-5 he is a perfect fit. The best part is he favors the Buckeyes right now.

Speaking of the 3-3-5, I had a revelation yesterday. You may have seen some back and forth both here and on Bucknuts between me and a knowledgeable young guy with the screen name Dvo45. He had some access and was the first to report to me that he saw alot of 3-4 in camp, which is the basis for our discussion. I say it is a odd man 4-3. He thinks it is a 3-4. There are still 4 linemen on the field in the base set. That they are lined up where they are is a wrinkle, as in odd man front, not a basic change in defensive scheme to a 3-4. But that could be changing. We have not offered players like Hankins over the years. The fact that we are looking at Jibril Black, a player who is likely to fill out into a nose tackle, is another reason to think we could be looking at a change. We have run the 3-4 Leo when Carpenter and Hawk were here but that is still a 4-3 defense. Heacock is very comfortable with a front 3. He likes to 2-gap but we have not had 2-gap DTs. We recruit the smaller quicker DTs, 1-gap players, and ask them to play 2-gap. Drives me nutty. The 3 DTs who make up the base front are Heyward, Worthington and Larimore, with Larimore playing right in the middle of the threesome. Heyward and Worthington fit the mold of 3-4 defensive ends. Worthington has always been a 4-3 tweener. He was never quick enough to be a defensive end and not big enough to play tackle. That is a good basic description of a 3-4 defensive end. I think Heyward could be a great 4-3 tackle but I think he is an even better 3-4 defensive end. The thing that is missing is a nose tackle. That brings me to the 3-3-5.

I have always been a firm believer in the 4-3. The best defenses I have seen were built around a front four that could at least get a stalemate consistently against the 5 offensive linemen across from them. I have started to come around to the 3-4. I think this pass happy generation makes having a smaller quicker guy on the field a sound strategy. Yesterday I was talking about this on the Bucknuts board and it hit me. The way 4-3 defenses are having to play right now it is more like a 4-2-5. We see more of Jermal Hines and Tyler Moeller than we do Ross Homan. In the 3-3-5 you still have 3 linebackers on the field. After that revelation I went looking for information. I wrote off the 3-3-5 as a gimmick defense. I would run right at such an animal. Zone block it to death. I did not think it would work at all in a conference where the best teams still want to pound the ball. I said some time ago that we would find out about the read option and the 3-3-5 that Rich Rodriguez was bringing in here this year. I think it is going to show some results as early as next year or it was going to look like he was not going to be around long. I think with the right quarterback the read option is very scary. I did not have the same opinion of the 3-3-5. Smash mouth dinosaur that I am, I saw maize and blue bodies laying all over the field with Carlos Hyde cleat marks dotting their bodies. After taking a closer look I might be wrong about that, .....and maybe we see some of that here in Columbus.

Here is a great primer on the 3-3-5 from BuckeyePlanet

http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/news/609152-basics-3-3-5-defense.html



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Comments (14)Add Comment
...
written by Kasino Royale, June 11, 2009
Actually D, I think he's a bit out of shape at 325. On one of his interviews he wants to get down to around 295-300lbs. He kind of made it seem like one of the coaches suggested it to him. I don't know if was some of the college coaches or his HS coach. I just found that interesting.

The plus side is if we can nab him at a "slim" 290-295 after a year in the college weight room and nutrition he can get him back to a healthy 305-310. He could be our war daddy in the middle.
...
written by BOBBY HAINES, June 11, 2009
I have appreciated your insightful explains of SSE & WSE and the different Hybrids and how JT has been recruiting the last 5 years. And if you have been paying attention to my postings, I have disagrragreed with you in the fact that i think JT has the flexibility to adjust on the field to just about any look he wants to for Big10, SEC, Big12. Speed, Power, Spread, whatever. 3-3-5, 3-4, 4-3, de to dt, dt to de to lb, ss to olb.
He has so many different hybrid athletes on this defense, that if any idiot doesn't think we dont have speed...
Watch the spring game, and watch Moeller track down the run away RB at the end of that game. Beautiful! We are more flexible than we have ever been!
3-3-5
written by dbuckeye44, June 11, 2009
I think you might have hit on a good point Duane. Not only does this year's recruiting lend support to you premise but I think the staff may have being thing this way a couple of years ago when they tried to get the two big kids from Glenville that never qualified. Last year in all liklihood we just could not attract the players for this move. However, a hybrid 3-4 lends itself to confusing the offense. Perhaps someone has talked to Dick LeBeau in regards to some innovative things they could do with their defense.
3-3-5
written by steve moore, June 11, 2009
Duane,

I'm thinking we should have been in a 0-0-11 against Texas on the last drive. They had to pass the ball. If they ran it, the clock runs on them. Who knows, maybe send a couple of DBs. We didn't get to Colt anyway, but wonder what would have gone through his head to look across the line and see 11 dbs.
Hankins
written by JP, June 11, 2009
General consensus is he needs to get in much better shape, but he does have a very good motor.
...
written by dvo45, June 11, 2009
Let me throw some random thoughts out:

1. The 335 is a very flexible defense...you can run it just about like any defense...

2. I think the one of the advantages of the 34 look they are going with is guys like Spitler and Homan can be true "inside" linebacker players that can smash anything coming at them.

3. I love having Thad and Moeller on the field, on the edge, at the same time. Talk about instant pressure on the quarterback.

4. OSUGrad21 brings this up on the BuckeyePLanet thread...guys like Hines and Coleman would be great SS types in the 335...some new guys would be like Zach D or Nate Oliver
re:
written by Duane Long, June 12, 2009
Actually D, I think he's a bit out of shape at 325. On one of his interviews he wants to get down to around 295-300lbs. He kind of made it seem like one of the coaches suggested it to him. I don't know if was some of the college coaches or his HS coach. I just found that interesting.

The plus side is if we can nab him at a "slim" 290-295 after a year in the college weight room and nutrition he can get him back to a healthy 305-310. He could be our war daddy in the middle.



Look at the film. He is not a fat kid. I think losing weight is about not wanting to play nose tackle. This staff has avoided kids with weight problems like the plague. Oklahoma plays one-gap. No overweight kids on their roster at DT either. He is saying he is wants to lose weight. His offers say he doesn't need to.
...
written by dvo45, June 12, 2009
Another random thought...

Jordan Hall played the "Hawk" position in high school...which is the strong safety/spur/outside linebacker/bandit/whatever you want to call it..

I wonder...
...
written by Duane Long, June 12, 2009
Just so you know. Nobody wants to play nose tackle. It is a 60 minute can o' whupass being thrown down on you, the money is not nearly as good as it ought to be,and you don't wake up laying next to women who look like Giselle Bundchen because the only people who know you are whack jobs like us.
re:
written by O-State, June 12, 2009
Just so you know. Nobody wants to play nose tackle. It is a 60 minute can o' whupass being thrown down on you, the money is not nearly as good as it ought to be,and you don't wake up laying next to women who look like Giselle Bundchen because the only people who know you are whack jobs like us.


LOL. Aren't NT's in high demand right now though? You mentioned Raji and Jerry were going to go way higher in the draft than they should because DT is such a need.
re: re:
written by a guest, June 12, 2009
Just so you know. Nobody wants to play nose tackle. It is a 60 minute can o' whupass being thrown down on you, the money is not nearly as good as it ought to be,and you don't wake up laying next to women who look like Giselle Bundchen because the only people who know you are whack jobs like us.


LOL. Aren't NT's in high demand right now though? You mentioned Raji and Jerry were going to go way higher in the draft than they should because DT is such a need.



I won't say high demand but they are in higher demand as fully 1/3rd of the NFL has gone back to the 3-4. I don't care if you have all-stars at every other position, you can not run an effective 3-4 without a nose. They are still not paid like they should be, witness the Patriots giving Vince Wilfork the cold shoulder in his contract demands right now despite the fact that he is one of the 3 or 4 best in the business, and the beating they take is a study in pain tolerance.
...
written by BOBBY HAINES, June 12, 2009
I played alot of positions when I was young, as I was very versatile, and the coach relied on me.Anywhere from CB/S/WR to the inside Line Positions. I played some NT, and some Center. Being in the middle of the action was absolutely BRUTAL. You really had to get your head up kwik or they would bury you in the dirt.
...
written by 1buckfaninmich, June 12, 2009
I agree with Haines--I think the staff is recruiting for flexibility that will allow them to adopt different defenses based on the opponent OSU is playing. While it is a shift in philosophy, I don't see it as a wholesale shift to a 3-3-5 or 3-4 scheme. As a base defense, these are not as good as the 4-3. Don't know what changed Duane's mind, but I guarantee you that an outstanding or even good offensive front with decent backs will generally be able to stuff the ball down the throat of a 3-3-5 defense (even with a good nose tackle). Attack it up the middle and between the tackles with big, powerful backs and, keep pounding away, and you will succeed. Of course, this approach requires that your own defense (against the team with the 3-3-5 scheme) is good enough that you don't fall behind by 20 before you produce with the running game. This staff is too committed to stop the run (as they should be) to commit to a wholesale change to a 3-3-5 or even a 3-4. I hope Michigan uses that defense for years, it should mean more OSU wins.
...
written by JP, June 14, 2009
The best defense is still the base 4-3 - if you have the DTs to run it well.

Go look at the best SEC teams over the past few years and see what they generally have in common - top-notch DTs.

Two good DTs eliminate any semblance of an inside running game and allow you to recruit LBs that don't need to muck in the middle, but can go sideline-to-sideline.

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